Looking into an AR
 

Ok guys, I am a complete AR noob. I have AKs both in 7.62 and 5.56, but now it feels time for an AR but I am on a budget. Cheap as possible budget aside from Olympic Arms or DPMS. All it needs to be is a basic shooter that is reliable and chambered in 5.56 to take the Mil Spec type ammo.

CMMG has their bargain bins, but I wont have money until Friday so that option is out, though that is definitely in my budget and will be taken first if theyre still there on Fri.

2nd is probably a Del-Ton Inc complete rifle for $750, that seems the cheapest for a well known well reviewed basic KISS rifle. Though something cheaper would obviously be better if out there.

3rd-I'm looking at piecing it together though buying separate uppers and lowers, but by the time the transfer and shipping fees are included, plus the charge for my smith to put them together and make sure its right is about $700, it almost seems better to just buy a complete rifle in the first place.
Or, I'm looking at kit such as this-
http://www.del-ton.com/Rifle_Kit_p/rkt100.htm
and then the only thing Id need is this correct?
http://www.del-ton.com/Del_Ton_Lower...er_p/lr100.htm
It says the only thing you need to complete the rifle kit is a stripped lower and that is it. If that is the case you can find those on various boards for as low as $100. That would put it somehwere around $600, plus the smith fee to put it all together. Not too bad,

Lastly, Im looking at some used ones, good idea or no? There seem to be some used for about $700 or so, but for $50 more you can have a new one, so that is the last option.

What say you guys? Anything I'm missing? AS stated above, I really know very little about the AR and there is so much about it it is hard to get started.

Sorry for the AR ignorance, thanks in advance for the help.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

AIMSURPLUS has 'em for some great prices !

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/dti4_thm.jpgDEL-TON DTI-4 .223/5.56 Rifle
01 FFL Required
Re-Introductory Price: $669.95ea
click for details


http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/D....56_Rifle.html

Re: Looking into an AR
 

I can understand wanting to put something together to save $, but with prices on complete rifles tumbling, I would pick up a Colt 6920 at $1189 (Clyde Armory) and be done with it.

$500 more than the $700 you mentioned, but a top quality carbine.

For $90 less ($1099) you could get a complete LMT SPM16 from the same place.

For putting one together:

You could also get a complete S&W lower for $299 from G&R tactical, or Delton's for $240.

The look at the Bravo Comany Site. Right now they are out of stock, but they sell the Daniel Defense complete uppers for $500:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Danie...per%20half.htm

S&W lower + Daniel D Upper = $800 and you just fit them together.
Delton lower + Daniel D Upper = $740 and you just fit them together.

The Daniel Defense Upper is 1/7 twist which will handle heavier bullets well.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

The only thing you need a `smith for is to check headspace. If you're going to have a `smith do the assembly, include him in the parts selection.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

No experience with Delton, but I would get the chrome-lined 1:9 for $45 more. Avoid Olympic. Too many reports of spotty quality control.

Most the lowers on the market are fine.

It's the UPPER that is the most critical...especially the barrel (chrome-lined 1:9 is optimal) and bolt and carrier group (with well-staked gas key, chrome-lined carrier, heavy-duty extractor spring), etc. etc.. Not all manufacturers have these features, but you can always upgrade the bolt group later.

Affordable uppers I would recommend: Rock River, Stag Arms, Bushmaster, maybe DPMS (no experience).

There are also BCM, CMMG, Noveske, Sabre Defense, LMT, etc. uppers, but these are pricier.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

I HAD bushmaster AR-15 modular carbine.

But I'll be damned if I didn't lose that damn thing in a boating accident over the summer..

:(

Re: Looking into an AR
 

Have you guys that are knocking DPMS actually had or fired a DPMS rifle? I say this because I have had Bushies, S&W's, and a few others over the years, but I sold all of them EXCEPT the DPMS. Other than the improperly staked gas key(which is common in ANY of the rifles in the <$1K price range, and an easy fix), they are good rifles. Most people that want a dependable and affordable rifle should consider them. I'm not saying the others mentioned aren't good as well, but my experience with DPMS has been nothing but good.

I would also consider Doublestar, a good company that you won't read any bad reviews for, built right here in Winchester, KY. Don't mix up their "inexpensive" models for "cheap".

Re: Looking into an AR
 

The S&W MP 15's are selling in my area for the price of the Del-ton you are thinking about. I've never heard anything bad about the Del-Ton's but the S&W seems to be considered a better rifle. I'm pretty satisfied with mine so far. I bought a used Bushmaster a couple of months before buying my S&W MP15 (MOE) and I like that too. The S&W seems a bit better though. The trigger is definately better. Both guns are very reliable and I've tried 4 different brands of mags in both with no issues. I've also tried all of the Bear (Golden, Bear and Silver), Remington, Tula, Wolf and some tracers (I know) without any problems. Unfortunately I am not a good enough shot or to tell you what the rifles will really do in regards to accuracy. I will say that both weapons do better with 55gr ammo. I'd recomend both manufacturers based on my LIMITED experience. I thought about the Del-Ton's when shopping around and they got decent reviews from the owners. I really considered the Del-Ton's (I believe they are also marked DTI on the lower) but now that prices are dropping I'd probably just get another S&W for a third AR.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

I hate to be the one to bring up the "CHART" but have you seen the chart that lists some of the major manufacturers and the different features for the weapons? It's on www.ar15.com and is pretty informative. I don't think a AR needs to be a Colt to be a good weapon but it's still nice knowing a bit more about the gun that you purchased.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

To AD-Thanks alot for the link, that may be where I have to go, but itll save almost $100 if the bargains are out of stock, thats killer though.

To GraspAU and Misry-All you have to do is fit them together? If the upper sold is marked as tested and Headspaced then its good to go to a lower? Not having experiance and only limited access to minor tools,(being in an apartment) you make it sound very easy.

As for the twist, I'm not going to be doing anything other than range and basic training and handling courses, so uber accuracy or range is not really a requirment right now, just the right one to handle the 55 and 62g FMJ rounds.

Thanks again for the help, you guys know your stuff.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

The info on that chart is not 100%. It is a decent starting point though.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

Just so you know. If you go Colt be aware you can only put a Colt upper on it.

Colt manufactures their AR's with an offset take down pin.

They are the only ones to do so.

You can take an upper or lower of any other manufacturer and switch them around.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

Other resources:

http://ar15sales.com/index.htm

http://www.pkfirearms.com/store/get_...?type=1&term=8

http://www.adcofirearms.com/

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/

Re: Looking into an AR
 

I sold my bushmaster 223 and have a DPMS .308 coming the mail as we speak. Im curious as to why dpms sometimes has a bad reputation, every ar-10 style dpms rifle ive picked up and taken apart has been solid. granted, I havent shot one (yet) but they seem to be solid rifles.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

CMMG bargain bin has been going on for several months now. While they may be running low, I think it is likely they will still be there at the end of the week.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

Assuming you get the upper you describe, yeah it's just like putting a model together except no glue. You really ought to read FAQ's and stuff like that on ar15.com or any of the other sites being recommended. It's really is that easy and for the budget you suggest you should be able to end up with a top end rifle for your needs.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

Hopefully this link will work. It's full of interesting stuff about a lot of the AR manufacturers.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...=5&output=html
By the way, there is a thread on www.Perfectunion.com about Del-Ton. They seem to like the brand.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

If I we're you I'd look for a local gun forum before I bought new. Lots of folks purchased AR's during the "pandemonium" and prices have fallen drastically for lightly used AR's that in many cases already have nice upgrades.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

The critical part of AR head-spacing is fitting the barrel to the barrel extension. Most barrels you buy will already be a headspaced unit ready to install into an upper receiver. The whole process of building both the upper and lower is fairly simple and doesn't require a whole lot of special tools although they do make it easier. See my AR pistol thread where I put together a complete lower in about 2 hours. An upper will take you a little longer but you should be done with the whole build in a day or two taking your sweet time. Where you might blow your budget is the choice of aftermarket goodies you might choose to include like rail handguards, pistol grip, sights, trigger etc but if you want to start with the basics then get one of those kits and forget needing a gunsmith unless you want the headspace checked but then for the same cost you can buy the guages and do it yourself. Any way you figure it your gonna spend 600-700+ for a complete gun so pay once-cry once.

As for DPMS, I have no problems with them but I think they might use 223 chambers, not 5.56 - I have one of their 16" cyrogenized bull varmint uppers and it would constantly Fail To Extract a variety of mil surplus ammo until I sent it back to have the chamber polishedNow there isn't any extraction problem. I have used Other DPMS parts with no problems so I don't know why some people complain about their stuff. I have a DPMS flattop upper I built with a mil-surplus barrel (marked EMP 1/9) and it fits and functions perfectly on a Bushmaster lower.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

I have put two AR-15 5.56 togethor from Del-Ton Kits and I am completely satisfied, Both rifles are nail drivers at 200. Each rifle with all parts required for full assembly excluding optics was priced in the neighborhood of $750 to $800 dollars.

The first one I purchased as a rifle kit similar to the one the OP posted, the second was a little more pieced together, as I had more of a clue what I specifically wanted, but both were very easily assembled. I bought both my stripped lowers locally.

The barrel assemblies are headspaced and can be fired as soon as you attach them to the lower.

AR-15 forum has a very good writeup on assembling the lower kit into a stripped lower. If you can follow directions and have any mechanical ability the first one should take no more than two hours and then any additional 30 minutes MAX! I didn't have any need for any kind of gunsmith.

Re: Looking into an AR
 

Fantastic write up here on most of the major brands (Colt, Noveske, LMT, Sabre Defense, S&W, Stag, Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, CMMG)

It is a pretty comprehensive "buyer's guide". Have fun!

http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=81462